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Pseudo-scholars biggest threat to Chitral’s peace — 48 Comments

  1. A Muslim should have only one introduction: “Muslim”. Anyone who recites Kalmaye-e-Shahada is a Muslim. We should take our pluralism in a strengthening manner not as a weakness and we should accept each other’s existence too. A garden will not be quite charming if it possess only one sort of flowers but it’ll be attractive if there are many. Mr. Danish, it doesn’t mean that I being an Ismaili appreciate your efforts; you have pointed out the root cause behind rising hatred in our peaceful valley though most of us still do not imagine its consequences.

  2. Mr. Danish, I agree with you on the issue of threats to the peaceful social environment of Chitral due to hateful speeches by clerics, and individuals who deliver such messages by other means. I am also against Faizullah type mullahs who have put the very integrity of our country at risk. But at the same time, the way we are trying to address the issue is equally important to be looked into. If the mullah is showing intolerance and creating hatred, we have to confront that threat wisely without being swept away by sheer emotions, likes and dislikes, to convince the people that Islam is not what a particular mullah is saying.We should also refer to those Ulema who have good records.
    Some elements having hatred against the Sunni Muslim community and its religious leadership took advantage of your article and expressed their views in a way which exposed their so-called moderation and tolerance for the majority the Sunni community. Taking advantage of the recent western onslaught of media war against Islam, such people are trying to impose their philosophy and so-called “modern” lifestyle on the rest of the people. NGOs funded by western countries are at the forefront in this mission. Therefore, while speaking on the matters of religion and beliefs and spiritual leaders great care is required. Express your views to convey your message without hurting the sentiments of others, because the Prophet of Allah said that Muslim is the one who does not cause harm to another Muslim by his hands and tongue. Facts in recent years reveal that the drive for “Roshan Khiyal Etidal Pasandi” (enlightened moderation) propounded by Pervez Musharraf is the main cause of the widespread extremism in Pakistan. Before Musharraf, there was no problem or threat to anyone practicing any religion or sect. Especially the Sunni community in Chitral has always been very tolerant towards others, even when Maulana Obaidullah was assassinated. The same attitude is expected from others as well.

    • @Zakir! Dear brother thanks for worthy comment. Let me make it clear to you that I had written that article neither for advantage nor disadvantage of any sect or community. I encountered something wrong done under the umbrella of our great religion Islam, and I raised my voice to alert our educated and youth before such elements exploit the religious sentiments of people and lead the issue to a point of no return. After all, Islam is our religion, and Islam means Peace, and Peace means “harmony in diversity”. I’ll give you just one hint of why I had to write that article and alert the concerned people: You know everything can’t be brought to media due to many many many reasons. “Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard are sweeter..”
      Thanks again for worthy suggestions!

  3. Brother Danish, we are proud of you. What you did is a duty of every true Muslim to identify evil elements and stay away from their evilness. We all deeply respect those great scholars of Chitral who are working to promote harmony and brotherhood in the area but at the same time we should also identify those who call themselves scholars but preach nothing but hate. None of us have ever disrespected the true scholars, neither the writer nor the people who commented on the topic. We are just talking about those elements who are trying to hijack the true image of Islam.

  4. Zakir Hussain, if you still believe that General Pervez Musharraf promoted extremism then you are totally wrong. It was General Zia who pushed forward such Mullas as Mr. Danish mentioned above in his article in the name of Jihad against Russia. Extremism was totally his gift when he was in power from 1977 to 1988. Every corner of Pakistan did not remain safe from his ridiculous regime even Chitral suffered from the menace of extremism.

  5. @Zakir: The Sunni community has never showed tolerance towards the other communities in Chitral. It’s the Sunni community and the mullah who converted a large number of Kalash. It is the mullah type of mindset which is busy in constructing mosques in the Kalash valley. If the Kalash culture is near extinction, it is again the mullah who is hell-bent on converting them to Islam. Don’t say it’s tableegh and it is mandatory. A mullah has no right to destroy a globally recognized unique culture. We are also well aware of your religious tolerance when you wanted to cash in on the killing of the cleric from Zait. If you want further detail just go and see the JUI chief. Don’t try to befool the people as everybody knows these mullahs and how tolerant they are.

  6. Afzal, if the 70% of the population of Chitarl is intolerant as you contend, then how Chitral is considered the most peaceful district in Pakistan?. Secondly, you have mentioned Kalash and others’ conversion, the answer is that they are not being forced to convert by anyone. If someone is embracing Islam on his own knowing about the eternal message of Islam, then there is no fault on the part of Muslim preachers. If that is the case then in USA 25,000 people are becoming Muslim every year. It is the duty of every Muslim to reach out to the people and present to them the message of Islam. You have mentioned Zait incident, what was the conspiracy behind that, who carried out the plan, is an open secret. But the Sunni community gave priority to the peace of Chitral over all. You should know that thanks to the ulema of Chitral everyone has the opportunity to live in a peaceful environment. Your hatred for the Sunni Muslims and ulema has also a base in your religious upbringing, which makes evident who is peaceful and who is…We as majority are committed to peace and will never allow anybody to disrupt the peace of our area, whether it comes from the mulla, missionary, khalifa or any individual. All political parties, religious leaders in our area are devoted to peace and will not give way to extremists from either side.

  7. The problem with people like Mr Zakir is that they never condemn extremism and talibanization categorically. They always use ifs and buts to get away with it. Blaming Musharraf for extremism is like living in a fools paradise. Everyone knows that it was Zia and parties like JI and JUI, who enjoyed cabinet ministries during his 11-year-long regime, who were the main culprits responsible for promotion of extremism and talibanization in the country. Musharraf is among those brave Muslims who started Jihad against extremists who had become and still are the worst enemy of Islam and Pakistan. He almost succeeded in his Jihad by kicking them out of the country and eliminating them. But we still have elements who have soft corner for Zia and his ideology and use innocent illiterate people to fulfil their designs by misleading the people in the name of religion.

  8. I am so sorry Mr Zakir I don’t agree with you because whatever you claim is not a fact. The fact is that the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-Fazal (JUI-F) chief Maulana Fazlur Rehman did not play any role rather some people allege that he took bribe from NGOs following the killing of the cleric from Zait.
    I just want to make it clear that Ismailis are not conspirators. The man who assassinated the cleric had a land dispute with him but unfortunately he (the cleric) was trying to give it a sectarian colour which forced the young man to resort to such an extreme step.
    The mullahs have been using the religion as a tool since long and Chitral is no exception as long as this sort of exploitation is concerned. The AKDN, in which over 80 percent employees are Sunnis, can explain the character of a mullah in a better way if you still consider them peace loving.
    If your Mullah is that tolerant, why did he declare jihad against suicide of a poor girl in Brep last year? The Kalash are being forced to convert into Islam. Their girls are being kidnapped at gunpoint and later forced to change their religion.
    If this is what you take pride on, I am sorry my dear I could not agree with you. As long as the peaceful environment is concerned, it is due to the Ismaili community which avoids confrontation as much as they can. They are peace-loving people and they are not allowed to pick up arms.
    The clerical lot of Chitral is completely ignorant of the word “tolerance”. It is totally Greek to them. They hate the Ismailis as much as they can even if he is your relative. I have cousins, who are Sunnis. They have grown up with us. They eat with us. They play with us, and still they come to us whenever they have some problem. We always greeted them with open arms. But now they have changed as they have grown up. One of them is a Mufti from Mastuj. This mufti was who was raised by his mothers’ relative when he was studying at a seminary in Karachi, now openly speaks against the Ismailis. This is a big problem with the Sunni community. They consider themselves as champions and contractors of Islam and think that they have to convert the whole world into their brand of Islam by whatever means. Many Ismailis may feel afraid of you or whatever reasons they have always remained silent but like other educated youth I consider it my duty to speak the truth and am also ready to give a tit-for-tat to all those who consider that whatever they churn out should not be challenged. The mullah mindset of people have always terrorized innocent people to achieve their own objectives. The need of the hour is to propagate the enlightened version of Islam because it teaches peace, not terrorism or coercion. In the holy Quran, God says there is no compulsion in religion.

  9. Pakistan is a country achieved on the basis of Islamic ideology (which never taliban’s approach of Islam). That ideology is a cementing force between the people of Pakistan. It is on the record that ZA Bhuttu appointed Zia guided by the principle that strengthening the ideological basis among the armed forces can only recover them from the setbacks of 1971. Zia did a great job to boost the morale of Pakistani nation. There was no Pathan, Punjabi, Baloch, Sindi, Muhajir, Sunni, Shia, all were united as one nation. The 1973 constitution declares Pakistan an Islamic Republic, and the architecture of the constitution was made Mr Bhutto (a well-known modernist). The problem is not with Islam or its ideology, it with the negative mindset. Musharraf fragmented Pakistani nation into ethnic and sectarian groups indirectly through his so-called concept of moderation. There were no Taliban at the time of Zia, they were created by Nasirullah Baber under Banazir Bhutto government. Sufi Mohammad and his group came up during Nawaz and Banazir governments. Zia ul Haq only implemented what Mr Bhutto included in 1973 constitution (which was his landmark achievement). Islam is a complete code of conduct and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is under the obligation to promote it according to the 1973 constitution.

  10. @Zakir Hussain@ Quaid-e-Azam never declared Pakistan as Islamic state. The pundits of religion are solely responsible for promoting extremism, which gave rise to terrorism in the country. They were against creation of Pakistan from the very onset and gave Quaid-e-Azam a tough time by supporting congress.
    Pakistan was always a secular country, where everybody had freedom of speech. Pakistan is burning today due to the stubborn attitude of clerics, who always distorted history for their vested interests. You are absolutely wrong if you think Pakistan came into being in the name of Islam. Do not distort the history, as Quaid-e-Azam in his numerous speeches stated that Pakistan is a secular state. Jinnah never dreamt of a theological Pakistan as claimed by some elements, who dubbed him as “Kafer-e-Azam” for his secular ideology and enlightened thought.

    • Afzal, your study looks very limited and biased. Just explain to me if Quaid-e-Azam and Muslims of the subcontinent were in favour of a secular system why they rendered so much sacrifices to achieve Pakistan? What was the problem for them to live in a united India?. Quaid-e-Azam achieved Pakistan on the basis to the two nation theory. He was a great Muslim leader and the Muslim world could not produce a leader like him in centuries.
      Pakistan is a democratic state where you can amend the constitution and make it according to your aspirations. Religious parties could not get more than 5 per cent votes, then why PPP, PML and other parties never convert Pakistan into a secular state? Are they also theologists? If you say that political parties could not do that then why Musharraf pretended to be an enlightened moderate and did not change the constitution? Who was stopping him? He made LFO and 17th amendment but why he forgot to rectify such BIGGEST mistake of the identity of Pakistan? My friend look in history keeping aside your personal likes and dislikes. You consider cleric as your enemy but what wrong have they done with you? Is Hakimulla Mahsood a cleric? Osama a cleric? Obama a cleric? They are killing people, not clerics. Who killed Salman Taseer, Sahahbaz Bhatti, cleric?.

  11. Afzal, you may have different versions of Islam but for me there is only one version that are the holy Quran and Sunnah. Nobody can compel anyone to change his religion in Islam. You have labeled baseless allegations against Muslims as a whole. Who is tolerant and who is full of hatred is evident from the posts above. Your comment on Zait incident only takes the (alleged) immediate cause ignoring the underlying facts. If I accept your contention, was that justifiable to kill a man just on the assumption that he will create problem? Then what is the difference between you and Taliban who are killing people just on their own assumptions?. Neither Sunnis of Chitral nor their ulema create hatred against any sect (if an individual utter something wrong it cannot be considered the opinion of all).

  12. @Afzal and Zakir! Believe me or not I love to read your comments even if you criticize each other’s standpoints. Leave everything aside for a moment and think, is listening to each other and being listened to not our basic rights?? Agree with me or not, most of our sectarian problems or tensions in Chitral have occurred only because we have been given no time to “listen” to each other. Either, we ourselves have not bothered to talk to each other or we have been ‘advised’ to ‘avoid’ each other. If we had been able to listen to each other and agree to disagree (if necessary) then how mature, tolerant and educated attitude we would have developed, misconceptions would not have risen at all and peace would have found its own way. I salute to the editor of this page to have provided us a platform where we talk and listen to each other patiently, respect each other’s opinions and standpoints and (intellectually) are able to agree at least not to agree. We don’t agree with each other but respect each other, and more importantly ALL of us believe in peaceful coexistence. This is a very encouraging sign – believe me!! I am proud of all those who comment on this page!! Believe me my joy knows no bounds!!! Hats off Chitralis WE HAVE BECOME EDUCATED!! A very bright future is awaiting us. I can clearly see that!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

  13. Thank you very much Danish dear and I must say that all the credit for this lovely debate goes to you. Zakir is a lovely guy but he needs some more time so that he can understand what these mullahs have been doing since long and who these Ismailis are. I have no enmity with the mullahs but I do not like their mentality. My grandmother was a rotten Sunni from Lot Oveer. I still go there, they love me, they care about me but thing which they cannot avoid whenever I visit them is, “Wish if you were a Sunni”. I retaliate in the same tone that if you people could have been Ismailis. Anyway, we should not let some vested interests present in our society to disrupt the peace and the sacred bond which both Sunnis and Ismailis have been enjoying since decades. This duplicity must be given an end and we should say with chest out that I am an Ismaili, I am a Sunni and from whatever school of thought you come from. But you must not feel shy of introducing your sect. Be proud of yourself even if you are a Kalash because it is your life and nobody including these clerics has no right to interfere in personal things. In the life of man, there are two very personal things, i.e. your wife and your religion – be very careful and crush if anybody dare speak about these two most important things, as they only belong to you.

  14. I agree with Zakir Hussain. Mr Afzal should read history properly because Quaid-e-Azam was a Deobandi Muslim and wanted to impose Sharia in the newly-created God-gifted country but he was thwarted from implementing his plan by anti-Muslim forces.
    Secondly, it was the religious leaders who launched the struggle for Pakistan but the credit was always given to Mohammad Ali Jinnah and his western educated AML leaders, who were not good Muslims but agents of the British. Thirdly, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was also a Deobandi and good Muslim because it was he who declared the Ahmedis as non-Muslims during his tenure as prime minister. It is also a fact that when Nawaz Sharif wanted to bring 15th amendment to declare himself Amiral Momineen, he was shown the door again by anti-Islam forces. Fourthly, Mr Afzal should recall the golden period of the rule of MMA in KPK when its MPAs and MNA served the people of Chitral without any discrimination and spent more development funds in areas inhabited by Ismailis. Can your Saleem Khan emulate the MMA leaders now, come on, don’t try to distort history.
    As far as people who point fingers at Ziaul Haq, they are not doing any good service to Pakistan. Look how safe were people during his tenure. In Karachi, during his rule, Pathans and Muhajirs lived like brothers but some anti-Islam forces formed the MQM and pitched them against each other in 1985 when he was the president. As a result, they brutally killed each other – about 200 dead bodies falling in a single day. Zia also defeated the Russians in Afghanistan but again many not-good Muslims say that it was the American dollars and arms that worked. Zia was rightly declared Marde Momin Marde Haq but again anti-Islam forces eliminated him otherwise today Pakistan would have even conquered the whole world and there would be no Christians, Jews and Hindus to conspire against the Muslims of the world!!

    • Wali sahab just to correct your record Quaid-e-Azam was Ismaili Khawaja Muslim and Z.A. Bhutto was a Shia Muslim by faith.

      • Zakir Saheb, if Quaid-e-Azam was an Ismaili, and I salute you to admit that, then why the Mullah and other extremists declare the Ismailis as not Muslim and why the Mullah continues to issue fatwas from the pulpit. Here don’t try to challenge my notion because if you say that nobody does that I can go into detail to substantiate my claim.

        • Thanks Wali Bhai, take your claim to courts if you have substantial proofs that will help in bringing him to justice whoever has issued fatwa against you.

    • @M.Wali: After reading your remarks about Qauid-e-Azam, Z.A Bhutto, and “Mard-e-Momin”, I thought you must be joking, but you were serious. To keep the records unbiased, enough voices have been raised already, so I just leave it here to save readers time.
      I could not digest particularly a line “Mr. Afzal should recall the golden period of the rule of MMA in KPK when its MPAs and MNA served the people of Chitral without any discrimination.” Let me recall the “golden period”.
      Chitral is the biggest district of KPK in terms of area. Unlike incumbent provincial government, the MMA was in better position not only in federal, but with absolute majority in province and won 3/3 in Chitral. What and how the MMA served KPK in general and particularly Chitral district; you appear to know better!
      Contrary to your version, I would love to show another picture through a simple example. Lotkuh valley home to about 70,000 peoples consists of two union councils; Shoghor; Garam Chashma. It is just (35-45 KM) away from district head quarter. I am crucially failed to find out a single instance (literally) of the MMA government era, when the MPA or MNA would have come to Lotkuh to display at least a “Takhti” of their names in Garam Chashma, Arkari or Karimabad; let alone any visible work. I still agreed this is not ‘discrimination’ but may I ask you which golden era and what service you are talking about?
      Dear Wali, if you proved otherwise. I will be pleased to revisit my views about Maulana Chitrali and his team; but I little doubt you will not!
      Election of Saleem Khan from lower Chitral is an indication of a positive trend. Had the peoples from other than Lotkuh i.e. (Chitral town, Drosh, Arandu etc.) not voted him, he would not have been a minister today. We should appreciate and promote this tendency.
      I am not his ardent supporter categorically for his failure to construct the Chitral-Garam Chashma road in five long years. For Lotkuh, Garam Chashma road is as crucial as Lowari tunnel for Chitral. Nonetheless, we should be enough generous to acknowledge his many other good works across his constituency. We cannot deny his equally presence and initiating different projects in Arandu, Drosh, Madaklasht, Jughoor, Chitral town, Singur, Lotkuh etc. This is what a public representative actually meant to be.

      • I completely agree with you bro. I haven’t seen any project during MMA era in our area of Mastuj. Even I remember once there was some “Bhook Hartal” by people of Mastuj against non-start of work on Booni-Mastuj road. Our then MNA visited the area and announced that work on the road would be started within a month “if not then you can cut my beard.” But after that, the MNA even never bothered to come back to the area let alone start of work on the project. I think M. Wali should again go through the record of the MMA regime government.

  15. My dear M. Wali of Mastuj, I am dead sure you do not know the ABC of history. It is a known fact that Jinnah was an Ismaili. You do not need to go outside, just around Mastuj and hundreds of people, schoolchildren will tell you that he was a Khwaja Ismaili. Do not distort the history. As long as your love for Gen Zia is concerned, it is just because of him we are suffering today.
    I am not a supporter of Salim Khan but even then I would say he is far better than your Maulana Chitrali. We still remember his glorious years as MNA and the way he served Ismaili community is also not hidden from anybody. What he did for the Ismaili community. Look at Salim Khan and the development projects he has undertaken in Sunni-dominated areas like Arandu, Drosh, Chitral town etc. What Bhutto did was right because the man who did not believe in the holy Quarn, last prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not a Muslim. He did a wonderful job, I salute him. Zia, your so-called marde momin, mard haq exploited the clerics and people of the same ideology to prolong his rule. My head is aching after going through your comment. I will reply to you in detail later.

  16. The services rendered by molvis in the subcontinent are well depicted by a poet of his own might – Habib Jalib – which I would like to dedicate to Mr Zakir Hussain, which may enlighten him. The thing which should be clarified here is that it was religious extremism, and sectarianism, which claimed the lives of many innocent Muslims. Salman Taseer also fell prey to these narrow-minded extremists. Just read Jalib and be at ease.
    Bahut ham nei suni hei aap ki taqreer Maulana
    Badalty phir nehi apni taqdeer Maulana
    Khudara shukar ki talqeen apnei paas hi rakhein
    Yeh lagty hei ban k merei seenei mei teer maulana
    Nehi mei bol sakta jhoot is darja ditayi sei
    Yehi hei jirum mera aur yehi taqseer maulana
    Haqeeqat kya hei yeh tao aap janei aur Khuda janei
    Sunna hei Jimmy Karter aap ka hei peer maulana
    Karoron kyon nehi mil ker Falasteene (Palestine) k liyei lartei
    Dua hi sei faqat kat-tee nehi zanjeer maulana.

  17. @Ahmed… HABIB JALIB KE ASHGHAR AAPKO MUBARIK HAMAREY LIYE YE KAFI HAI KA ISLAM KEHTAI HAI “K ULAMAA AMBIA KE WARIS HAIN” AOR ISLAM HAMEY YE B BATATA HAI KA “AALIM AOR JAHIL BARABAR NAHI HO SACTEY”.

  18. What about Aimas? Hamee Ullah. Jalib was a great poet who knew very well and had brain, not like you.

  19. Excerpt from the Presidential Address delivered by the Quaid-i-Azam at AIML gathering March 22-23 1940: “It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religious in the strict sense of the word, but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders; and it is only a dream that the Hindus and Muslims can ever evolve a common nationality. This misconception of one Indian Nation has troubles and will lead India to destruction if we fail to revise our notions in time. The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, literatures. They neither intermarry nor interdine together and, indeed, they belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspect on life are different. It is quite clear that Hindus and Mussalmans derive their inspiration from different sources of history. They have different epics, different heroes, and different episodes. Very often the hero of one is a foe of the other and, likewise, their victories and defeats overlap. To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built for the government of such a state.”

  20. Mr Zakir, Tell me when the Quaid had said that in the Muslim country of Pakistan, minorities would be treated as second-class citizens. And, I am sure you must have also read the Quaid’s August 11, 1947, address to the members of the Pakistan Constituent Assembly, but you deliberately do not want to mention it.
    In that speech, the Quaid had said :“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State… We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State… I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in due course Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.”

    • Ehsan, first of all I did try to prove that Pakistan was achieved on the basis of two-nation theory. You must understand that to Quaid Muslim meant a nation without falling in sects. The All India Muslim League was the representative organization of Indian Muslims. the Quaid firmly believed in the concept of equality and justice as enshrined in Islam. Once Quaid had said we do not want a mere piece of land but want that where we can practice the golden principles of Islam. There was no sectarianism at that time. Minorities rights are much more protected under the Pakistani constitution than in any other country. The problem is the implementation of law and constitution that has made Pakistan a hell for all. Terrorists whether they are TTP or BLA or militant wings of MQM, PPP, ANP in Karachi, have nothing to do with Quaid’s aspirations or Pakistan’s integrity. They are enemies of all. Rights of minorities and majority can only be protected if rule of Law is established in Pakistan. Secular parties are more responsible for that than the religious parties, because they enjoy the support of majority and rule the country.

  21. @Zakir Hussain (Abu Dhabi) November 23, 2012, at 4:24 pm “Secular parties are more responsible for that then the religious parties.”
    There are NO secular parties in Pakistan. Name only two MPA or MNA who won election after saying they will make Pakistan a secular state.
    Fact is, no one had won election after saying this except Mian Ferozeuddin and Bazenjo. Both of these would have won election in any case so their declaration for secularism has nothing to do with them wining election.
    Why forget Meesaq-e-Medina, Quaid used its name as blueprint for Pakistan. It was what we call constitution these days, for the first Muslim State and it was between Muslims and non-Muslims citizens of Madina State. Principals laid down in Meesaq-e-Medina are the principals for Pakistan not some secularism, which NO ONE dare to mention before election. What is missing in Meesaq-e-Medina from a modern state prespective? If nothing is missing then follow the vision of Quaid and implement the Meesaq-e-Medina (its principles) in true letter and spirit. One can blame Quaid-e-Azam of lots of things but telling a lie is not one among them.
    We all know majority (90%+) of leaders/elected members are thieves, liars, cheats and corrupt or support corruption. Now show me one (among 1074+ MNAs and MPAs) who declared before election to support corruption if elected. Morale is they have as much mandate to implement secularism as they have to support corruption.
    ==============
    @Zakir (Abu Dhabi) November 22, 2012 at 9:28am: “Wali sahab just to correct your record Quaid-e-Azam was Ismaili Khawaja Muslim.” I could be mistaken but the correct word is “Khoja ” not Khawaja. Between post-WW-II in Middle East the word Khawaja was used for non-Muslim European.
    Indeed the Quaid was a Khoja by birth but the question is what he chose to be when he could decide?
    I will not get into saying how he was buried or what he told to someone or wrote. He had a chance to start fresh what he did? We all know the lady he married was not a Muslim. That lady when converting to Islam, did she become a Ismaili Khoja Muslim, Shia Muslim or a simple Muslim?
    The Quaid loved that lady no question about it. He must have asked her to be one like him. My deduction is he asked the lady neither to be a Ismaili Khoja nor Shia but a simple Muslim like him. This is what whenever asked Quaid said he was.
    ==============
    @Wali, Mastuj, November 20, 2012 at 7:19pm. “Mr Afzal should read history properly because Quaid-e-Azam was a Deobandi Muslim.” Please quote the source [recorded voice of Quaid or his speech reporting published before Sept 1948] as I have never read the word “Deobandi” about Quaid. It was Ulema of Deoband who opposed creation of Pakistan, so what type of Deobandi the Quaid was? If I beleive your words.
    ==============
    @Afzal, Islamabad, November 19, 2012 at 4:23pm. “Do not distort the history, as Quaid-e-Azam in his numerous speeches stated that Pakistan is a secular state. “The source and to quote only two speeches of Quaid in which he used word “Secular.”
    I will accept only original source meaning anything published before Sept 1948 for simple reason as Quaid was alive then. Please do not quote Justice Munir report as he cheated by editing the words, he added/edited the quote he made. In plain words he lied.

  22. @Tariq, You better read history with great care before passing any comment. I know you want to repeat the propaganda that Quaid-e-Azam had converted to Shiasim. This is a propaganda and nothing else. As long as Jinnah’s wife, Rattan Bhayi is concerned, she had embraced Islam before tying the knot with him. The same question was also put to Jinnah by his daughter after she married a Parsi guy. The Quaid told her that he married Ratti only after she embraced Islam.
    Muslims like Quaid-e-Azam?. What sort of Muslim you want to declare him? If you fall in love with the girl of another sect, this is for sure she will accept your sect. Could you substantiate your claim by giving an example of a single Muslim who has no sect? This is a political statement, so do not argue based on street gossips. You cannot find a single Muslim who has no link with any sect.

  23. @Afzal, Islamabad November 24, 2012 at 6:47 pm ” I know you want to repeat the propaganda that Quaid-e-Azam had converted to Shiasim.”
    How could you deduce this from what I had written ? He was not Shia just Muslim.
    As long as Jinnah’s wife, Rattan Bhayi is concerned, she had embraced Islam before tying the knot with him. Correct! that is what Quaid said she is a Muslim. There was no qualifications to word Muslim. Just in case you did not knew she embraced Islam not in Khoja Jamat Khana of Bombay. Now do you have any idea why Quaid could not take his beloved to khoja Jamat Khana to embrace Islam ?
    I know it was not you who posted [ Quote: Zakir Hussain (Abu Dhabi) November 22, 2012 at 9:28 am Wali sahab just to correct your record Quaid-e-Azam was Ismaili Khawaja Muslim… : End Quote ] but I wonder why you replied to it ? Are Afzal, Islamabad and Zakir Hussain (Abu Dhabi) same and one ? No I do not have problem feel free to has as many persona as you wish.
    Now the question why she did not go to Khoja Jamat Khana to embrace Islam ? I am not aware of but is there any restrictions on a Non Muslim [ Non Ismailis are not allowed to enter Jamat Khana, this I know for sure. If I am wrong please name one in Karachi so I could verify btw do not name the one of Namazi group Jamat Khana/Masjid.] to enter Jamat Khana ? Knowing she was a celebrity is there any record of her visiting Jamat Khana, a photo will do? Same way Khoja do visit Jamat Khana regularly, which Jamat Khana Quaid use to go while in Bombay and what about Karachi?
    You said “Muslims like Quaid-e-Azam?. What sort of Muslim you want to declare him? If you fall in love with the girl of another sect, this is for sure she will accept your sect. Could you substantiate your claim by giving an example of a single Muslim who has no sect? ” allow me to answer them one by one.
    1 – ” Muslims like Quaid-e-Azam?.What sort of Muslim you want to declare him? ”
    I am no body to declare him any thing, he has done it himself. BTW he died before I was even born. All I do is accept the verified facts.
    2 – “If you fall in love with the girl of another sect, this is for sure she will accept your sect.”
    You are right! Accepted, now please tell me why she behaved in different way ?
    3 -Could you substantiate your claim by giving an example of a single Muslim who has no sect? ”
    I hope with this you mean that Quaid [ I consider my self also ] was just a Muslim not a Khoja Ismaili Muslim ? Will it be ok if I ommit the name of Holy Prophet PBUH among followers start with Hazrat Ali AS, three caliphs, the Ten blessed who are mentioned in Holy Quran, thousands of Companions, too much to list here all belong to NO SECT, please correct me if I am wrong. Finally Quaid is quoted to have said [ you want exact quote+source?] he is a muslim like Holy Prophet and his companions were.
    While I know many Muslim who DO NOT belong to any sect, meet one ME! I do not belong to any sect not because Quaid did so rather due to my understanding of Quran.
    Have you noted all commands in Holy Quran [ believe in one Allah, beleive in Day of judgement, Pray to Allah, Fast in month of Ramzan, Pay Zakat and perform Haj,etc.,etc. ]are all in first person. What it means Allah is addressing me what to do or what not to do directly through His messanger PBUH that message was delivered. He is Addressing me direct, if I understand His directions then I have to follow them. Now my understanding is not hidden from Him, He knows what I understood so there is no eascape for me but to act upon them.
    I have not been given any command in third person or through any intermediary / told to use any interlocator. So where is the justification for me joining any sect ?
    Hope all above does not sound like ” street gossips ” to you. May I now request you to attent to my querry and kindly provide “The source and to quote only two speeches of Quaid in which he used word “Secular.”
    I do hope you are also acting upon the advice “Tariq, You better read history” you have given me.

    • Quaid e Azam was great Muslim leader; he never associated himself with any particular sect. Though he was born in a Ismaili Khawaja family. It does not matter for me what was his sect, what he proved is that, he was Great Muslim leader respected and followed by a huge majority of British India. People loved him for his leadership, honesty, dedication and devotion to Muslim cause. He was used to deliver speech in English, but all people were listening to him like they knew whatever he was saying. That was the love and respect he got from his people. It will be very unfair to associate this great man with a particular sect instead he was the beloved leaders of all Muslims of the undivided India, and later Pakistan. He had also substantial following among people of other religions as well. May Allah keep his soul in eternal peace. (Ameen

  24. The major problem with majority of us whether we belong to any sect is that “We don’t have the acceptance power”. Once we be able to get this, there would be no controversies, no hatred and no disturbance.
    Zahoor ul Haq Danish did a very great job and I salute him for his greatest concern. Despite being from a Sunni sect, he has shown the real image of the clerics. This is what we call being unbiased, rational, mature and well educated.
    As far as religious orthodoxy is concerned, it is in every sect not just in “Sunnism”, but its intensity differs. I am from an Ismaili community, and see and meet many such religious extremists in the Ismaili community also.(Although they don’t make hate speech against any sect on any public event or in their places of prayers (Jamat Khanas)) but still they are there. Many of my Ismaili friends would not agree with me but it is a fact. Extremism is on both sides.
    We should make our minds clear about what is actually religious extremism, after that we might be able to point out the religious extremists in any sect.
    If you hate a person for no other reasons, jut because he belongs to a sect other than your’s, that is what is termed religious extremism. May be the intensity of this hatred very low but still you are an extremist.
    Now as an educated people, we should make our mind pretty clear that religious extremism is in every sect, but we should come forward to eradicate it. Just posting hateful comments against each other will create further gape among the different communities in Chitral. We should have enough maturity and courage to accept the flaws in ourselves if we really want to change the conditions or make something positive to happen.

    • @ Karim; I will reply you very soon and clear your mind about your vision and thoughts after having my papers. Anyway, I am sorry to say that your information about peace in Chitral poor and you are still unable to differentiate between a Mulla and an Alim.

      • Syed Wazir Ali Shah. It is democracy, man. You can share your point of view, you are free. To criticize me, I never mind, but before making a criticism please read the other carefully, try to understand what he is saying. Don’t overlook, please revisit my comments, I haven’t compared or even talked about “Mullah and Alim”. Your aggression is justifiable, after all “Truth can’t be swallowed easily, especially when it is against you.”

  25. Mr. Muhammad Karim has jumped to conclusion by declaring Ismailis extremists. I have a few questions to you. 1. Have you ever heard about any Ismaili extremists blown up himself in the public area or in any place? 2. Do they spread hatred among themselves for the other sect especially towards Sunni sect who always look toward us with strange eyes? 3. Have you ever heard any Ismaili has been transferred to any unknown cell? Dear, we are peace lover and it is Farman of our Holy Imam that to be Loyal to your country. We respect others and also expect the same from them.

  26. Well My friend Abid Ali Rawalpindi; I have an advice for you if you don’t mind. Please read thoroughly and with a present mind whatever you read. The first thing you have overlooked while reading my comment is, “I am an Ismaili”, I have mentioned it pretty clearly in my comment. So don’t think being unbiased means the person is in the opposition.
    Now coming to your Questions:
    1) Have you ever heard about any Ismaili extremist blowing up himself in the public area or in any place? Well it is a debatable issue. I think you also have the same old philosophy about extremism and terrorism as most of the people have. What you want to say, the suicide bombing is a practice attached to the “Sunni sect”? Or you want to prove that the barriers of extremism and terrorism are “Sunnis”?
    If that is what you want to say, then I am so sorry I can’t agree with you, and I must say you have to increase your knowledge in this regard. My dear, extremism and terrorism are not something attached with any sect or religion. It has multiple barriers behind it, like international politics, economics, military strategies, intelligent agencies and many more. Terrorists have no religion, they do not belong to any sect, they have their own ideology.
    You have mentioned the Farameen of the the holy Imam, yes I agree with you, but again you have a poor knowledge about the Farameen of the holy Imam.
    Please go through the two interviews which the Imam has given to “CBC” and “CNN”, what he says about Talibanization, terrorism and extremism, you will surely understand after going through these interviews if you are a real follower of the Imam.
    2) Do they spread hatred among themselves for the other sect especially towards Sunni sect who always look toward us with strange eyes? Well it is again a debatable issue, as I have mentioned in my previous comment, “religious orthodoxy is in every sect”, I am repeating, “religious extremists are in every sect, including Ismailism”, but its intensity differs, hope you understand what I mean by that.
    3. Have you ever heard any Ismaili has been transferred to any unknown cell? I am a little bit confused about what you mean by “unknown cell”? I am presuming you are pointing towards the missing persons issues in Pakistan. (correct me if I am wrong).
    If that is what your point is, then dear again I am compelled to say you have very poor knowledge about what you are talking. Again, here lots of forces are behind the missing persons issue, you can’t just blame any particular sect for that.

  27. Muhammad Karim. Good to know and see your analysis; you can be a good writer. You have potential and I appreciate your work and also praise you for being neutral. You are right and I am also right. You have mentioned in your above comment that some Ismailis are extremist and I also went thoroughly through your comment and am glad to see you also belong to my sect. Now I would like to add some points. There are certain beliefs in a faith. Sunnis have their own interpretation and fundamentals and we have our own. What Imam says that there should not be compromise in your faith, ethics and so on. I think we should be fundamentalist with certain limitations not like the Mullahs’ thinking that was exposed my dearest friend Mr. Zuhoor Ul Haq Danish and I became a big fan of him. Insha ALLAH I will meet him and would like to take a photo with him. Of course, I will print out all his works for keeping in a record and will tell my upcoming grandsons that such people did exist in our time especially in Chitral where Ismailis were always meted out step-motherly treatment. We are extremist because we believe that our fundamentals should not be changed. What are those fundamentals near to us? They are ethics, generosity, honesty, straightforwardness, truth, loyalty etc. Unfortunately, these Secondly, you have mentioned CBC interviews of our Imam. Indeed, he showed great concern about war and terror in Iraq and Afghanistan. Once he said Islamic culture, history and civilization were in jeopardy and it is clash of ignorance. He is the king of Islamic world without crown.
    Let’s talk about terrorist. I hope you know Syedna Hassan Bin Sabah, the founder of Qilay Almaut, where suicide for a cause was first started. But these people are doing it now what we have done hundreds of years ago. But now it is not time to blow up ourselves. I would like to share here Surah Tauba where ALLAH says “PREPARE YOUR HORSES…” Now we don’t need horses, we need drones, we need latest arms that we can confront our enemies with. Why did Allama Iqbal wept when he saw Muslim scholars’ books in the shelves of Western world because they snatched them from us and reached the moon. But we are still wondering declaring our brothers as non-Muslim. As a result, we are now 73 sects.How Ismailis are extremist? Study Al Azhar university’s past, who was the founder of that intellectual house where many students were quench their thirst for knowledge. Now does anyone use to refer to that great university? Where booked were burnt by Salahuddin Ayubi. You said we are extremist. We are fundamentalist in certain believes which our Imam interprets for us with the passage of time. He has the authority on us.
    At last, I am not saying that all brothers in other sects are same as we have seen Mr. Zuhoor Ul Haq. We have tolerance because Imam says so.

  28. Abid Ali, Rawalpindi, thank you for your compliments.
    Now coming to your comment, some of your views reflect paradoxy, you have mentioned fundamentalism, actually being fundamentalist is where sectarianism starts. Fundamentalism is strict adherence to the fundamental principles of any set of believes, and it is pretty clear that being strict and rigid in anything doesn’t leave any room for accepting anything opposite in nature to what you believe, so being fundamentalist is something which confines you to believe that things you believe area always right. It trains your mind to reject the opposite at the very start. So in order to be in harmony with the person in opposition you have to be flexible in your believes, not rigid.
    Secondly, you have mentioned (Syedna Hassan Bin Sabah, the founder of Qilay Almaut). I am a little bit confused, it didn’t touch my mind what you actually tried to prove. Your statement “where suicide for a cause was first started. But these people are doing it now what we have done hundreds of years ago” seemed a little bit out of order to me. This statement of yours actually reflects that the actual inventors of the suicide blasts were “Ismailis”. If that is true then Ismailis don’t have the right to speak against these suicide attacks. You said, “But these people are doing it now what we have done hundreds of years ago”, what you mean by it? Are you justifying an awful act done by Ismailis “according to you” because it was practiced years back? I couldn’t actually get your logic. Please revisit your comment and don’t ever try to ponder into something beyond your locus of understanding.
    You have referred to Surah Tauba, “where Allah says “PREPARE YOUR HORSES”. Dear no one is that fool to fight against high tech drones with horses. Even an illiterate dump knows it very well that the term “Horses”, used in the Holy Quran has to be taken as a “Metaphor”. No one fight their enemies with horses anymore. Now to make progress in any walk of life whether it is technology, science, commerce, economics or human resources, we have to free ourselves from religious bounds; we have to be flexible in our believes to create rooms for others. That is where tolerance comes in. You said we are tolerant. No, my dear we are not. Go through all the comments passed by you and your fellow Ismailis, you will realize how much tolerance we have and how much tolerant we are. Just saying I am tolerant doesn’t mean you are tolerant. Do it practically. And please try to know the different phases and levels of showing tolerance. It is not like that, that you become intolerant only when you blow yourself up or make a hate speech against any particular sect publicly, that is the harsh level of showing intolerance. If you are posting hateful comments against a person just because he is from another sect, still you are intolerant.

  29. Mr.Zahoor ul Haq Danish! One thing I tell you and being a human being never forget that. It is not your ultimate skill that you are able to write only, just look into that what you are writing and what is the consequences of your bringing a thing into debate. Never write such things that make misunderstandings among people and there arise questions and quarrels. Word is like an arrow and when it is uttered and heard by people it is shot and never returns as a thought in mind. You had said something in the past and now you are clarifying that, it is not possible. Are you not trying to disturb the atmosphere of Chitral. If you are hoping for a contest in the elections, we shall vote you. This is not the way to earn fame.

    • Gentleman do you want to curb and suppress free thinking and freedom of speech? And more, do you favour hiding the problem, not solving it??? Are you of the view that ‘mullahs’ can say or do no wrong??? Do you think that people think, write, work and bread the status quo only to be ‘popular’??? I pity you. You don’t seem to belong to this world. Gone are the days when one particular mindset: anarchy, dictatorship, mullah etc used to curb freedom of thinking and speech. This is the era of knowledge, not ignorance; of truth not of falsehood. Wake up, dear! It is still not late!!

  30. Mohammad Illyas, Zahoor ul Haq Danish is a well-educated teacher and does not need any publicity to fame. Teaching is a noble profession and teaching in a university is an honour. Don’t be afraid or be jealous of his status and you should praise his straightforwardness and truth as he had showed in his two important articles. Why you don’t feel the consequences when such Mullas are filling hatred among the Chitralis. Why? Why are you shouting when a man like Mr. Zahoor ul Haq Danish tried to show the mirror to the mullah for their hate mongering which many so-called well educated persons couldn’t do it in the past? The answer is simple. They are afraid and don’t want to make the environment unfavorable for themselves. I hope there are many people like Danish but they can’t speak out for different reasons.

  31. Dear Karim, first you should differentiate between an Alim and a Mullah. Spread of violence (Fasad) is clearly prohibited and creating doubts in the minds of people is also dangerous. Alims are those who forward love, peace, brotherhood and abstain themselves from other ills, which are many, especially in Islamic countries. There are many Alims like Sheraaz Mawlana of Parwak who is also a great man. Late Qazi Sahib of Mastuj and many others also did wonderful job by spreading good messages among the people.

  32. Muhammad Karim; Dear, definitely we respect every Chitrali. Our language guides us towards love. When you say ma shirin brar, how you feel? Be lovely and spread love instead of hatred. How do we feel when we see a Chitrali while speaking Khowar in any urban area – out of Chitral. Although we don’t know each other, but as Chitralis we take good care of each other that is what our beautiful Chitral gives us. Chitral is second name of love, so don’t spread hatred, we have been respected all over the country due to our peacfulness. Here I would like to give an example. Have you observe that while coming to Peshawar when security agencies stop our vehicles, they do not need to check and frisk us after knowing that we are Chitralis. Dear, it is because we are peaceful, we love and promote brotherhood, and other people know it. Indeed it is a big honor to you when police or other law enforcement agencies do not feel the need to frisk you. It is really a big honor which you should realize. Being a Chitali, tu ma shirin brar…hardia mo ganey.

    • Abid Ali, Rawalpindi:
      Brother, this is what we want to say. “Don’t spread hatred, don’t judge people based on their faith, don’t blame people for the things that they didn’t practice, don’t favor miscreants only because they are from the same sect which you belong to.” You said, don’t mind! There is nothing for me to mind, this one of your comments goes against the ones posted before. Go through them again. “Be realistic in you approach.”

      Hasnian Ali, Gilgit:
      Dear I don’t know what is the problem with you people, why do you overlook my comments, please go through it again. I haven’t compare a Mullah and an Alim. And still you are trying to teach me the difference between the two!

  33. zhanay tha tasum lu sheni wa….

    Commenting on posts more than six months old are automatically closed.–Editor